Suggestions for Damage ratings for moves (UPDATED 12/29)

**** THIS IS NOT A FINAL PRODUCT. THIS IS GOING TO BE CHANGED AND EDITED AS NEEDED ****


OK, so my plan for damage balance is based upon damage ranks and whatnot. I won't speak to discuss attack speeds or whatnot, only because I don't really know what's up with that stat... But, what I DO know is the following:

**All moves MUST have a minimum of 1 damage. NO MOVE AT ALL will have more than 40 Max damage.

** Any moves that result in a pinfall attempt count as one rank lower for damage, as they are a win condition attempt.

** Any moves that are submissions count as two ranks lower for damage, as they can be a near infinite string of damage when applied against the untrained.

** Any injury that a move can do will come out of the damage of a move at a ratio of 2 points per injury point. I want this to apply for submissions too, since I believe they have that as an option.

** Since moves can have stat requirements that span all 6 stats, the numbers I'm putting down for stat requirements are to be ranked as if "All from only having one stat"/"Split between two stats"/"Split between three stats"/"Split between all 6 stats". So, for a rank 2 move, it's requirement would be EITHER 8 points in a single stat, 7 points between two stats, 5 points from 3 stats, or 3 points from ALL 6 stats.


Starting Rank moves has 7 points to spend between min/max damage. Since Starting rank moves are base for everyone, there should be no stat requirements for these moves. Accuracy and Speed would be high, as these are *the* moves that start off every match.

Rank 2 moves should has 14 points to spend between Min and Max damage. Lightly less speed and accuracy, but not TOO much less than the above moves. The stat requirements for these moves will be 12 points/10 points/8 points/5 points.

Rank 3 : 24 points to spend between min/max damage.
Move botch should begin to be an issue.
Stat Reqs 18/16/13/10

Rank 4 : 31 points to spend between min/max damage
Bigger move botch, but now accuracy can start increasing.
Stat reqs 26/23/19/17

Rank 5 : 40 min/max damage
Bigger and Bigger botch, preferably with a longer requirement for mastery
Stat reqs: 34/29/27/23

Rank 6: 49 min/max damage
Longer Mastery requirement
Stat reqs: 42/35/31/28

Rank 7: 58 min/max damage
Stat Req: 50/42/38/34

Rank 8: 70 Min/Max Damage
Stat ranks: 62/52/48/40

FINISHERS: The players may spend 75 points between min/max damage on a finisher. If they choose to make it a pin finisher, they remove 13 points. If they choose to make it a submission finisher, they remove 26 points. Extremely high level of botch capability, to be trained out.


**** THESE ARE ONLY SUGGESTIONS! PLEASE LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN! IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE I START RANDOMLY INSERTING MOVE DAMAGE, SPEAK NOW! ****

I like the way your have sorted these rankings

The finisher System i like, it gives a sorta edge to the way we make our wrestlers. I like your point on the reduction for Sub damage due to the attack string.

it also gives us a good balance for the damages, i like it especially if we have accidentally made too much damage or what not.


I think once put into effect your system can make tweaks from there.

On Nov. 6th, I'm going to take matters into my own hands and start getting moves set up and start screwing with the move damages. We can play around with that for a bit, but I'm really, seriously, going to get in depth about it.

In fact, when I'm done, my list of moves that I've put ranks to will also have the Damages Next to it. I would *love* some help though, and if I actually single handedly go through every move, I am going to usurp some Admin powers and rule this entire site with an iron fist!

So, here's what I want from you.

Every move that you enter, please write the damage next to the move in the thread with that move in it. For example, if you worked on the damage for Powerbomb, I want you to go to the thread with the Standing Moves, and next to powerbomb, write in the damage you put. This way we ALL know it's been worked on, and we can high five over the productivity.

This site is not going to thrive unless we bust our respective genitalia. This is now bigger than any one of us. It's a collection of ALL of us. Let's prove that we're as awesome as I keep saying we are.

Ok, I'm slowly going through the moves we have here, and putting up suggested damage for each attack. I have NOT dealt with the stat requirements yet, but I imagine that'll be easier to do after we've got the correct damages implemented, rather than the proxy ones we have now.

Once all the damages are put in here, and ok'ed by the admins, I'll start slowly but surely putting the updated damage values into the game proper. The damages will NOT be updated before that. I want to make sure we're got a solid base first.

Lastly, I need everyone to worship the very ground I walk upon. That is all for now.

All right. I should have updated this a bit ago, but I didn't so here's the status of moves.

As of 12/29/2009, All moves currently in the database have had the ranking system of damage implemented.

In addition, all moves have had a modifier attached to them, informing us what 'type' of an attack it is. Those types are as follows: Strike, Grapple, Slam, Drop, Transition, Top Rope, Toss, and Suplex. Eventually, we will have skills that are affected by those move types, and it's gonna be freaking sweet.

The stats required to learn moves (We're basing move learning on the whole stat, not just a piece of it) are what I and Vixen are currently in the midst of working on. Here's what I can say for certain right now.

1) No move will require more than 55 in any single stat.

2) The BEST moves (i.e. Tier 8, non finisher moves) will require more than a single stat. Don't think 55 skill will get you an ankle lock. Don't assume 55 Strength will get you a chokeslam.

3) ** THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. KINDLY REPLY IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER ** Charisma will be important for learning more moves. The other stats help you when you have the moves, but without Charisma, you're not playing to the crowd. (Bear in mind, this is being written before the Charisma skill is fully implemented) I fear this stat will either be abused or ignored. Expect us (Read: The Powers That Be) to do a LOT of balancing in either direction if this is true.

4) ** THIS IS ALSO SUBJECT TO CHANGE. IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS/CONCERNS ABOUT THIS, PLEASE REPLY TO THIS THREAD ** The required stat combination for any move will be based on it's ranking. (You know, the thing I posted in all those other threads about move ranks and damage?) Here's the guideline I'm currently going to follow. I hope to have a great variety in HOW those points need to be spent to unlock what move, so

Rank 2 moves : A grand total of 18 points need to be placed within attributes. (3*6 attributes)

Rank 3 Moves : A grand total of 30 points need to be placed within attributes. (5*6 Attributes)

Rank 4 moves: A grand total of 60 points need to be placed within attributes. (10*6 Attributes)

Rank 5 Moves: A grand total of 90 points need to be placed within attributes. (15*6 Attributes)

Rank 6 moves : A grand total of 120 points need to be placed within attributes. (20*6 Attributes)

Rank 7 moves : A grand total of 180 points need to be placed within attributes. (30*6 Attributes)

Rank 8 moves : A grand total of 210 points need to be placed within attributes. (35*6 Attributes)

The more I keep looking at this last part, the more I keep thinking short term, but hoping long term? I'm trying to bear in mind the haste granted to those who choose to enhance training on 3 stats, compared to those who choose to only get 1. I'm not certain the time will allow for many of these moves to achieved within less than, say, 10-11 months. But, it will prevent "rushing" to an endgame move and coasting off of it for the next few months.

Thoughts?

Talked to Ubie last night and any moves that are transitional - like running to ropes, etc, those should not do any damage at all, so their min/max will always be 0. Those are the only moves, though, that can get away with 0's though. I totally agree with everything else you've said, though Snaps.

All right. After careful consideration with my brilliant brainstorming counterpart, here's our conclusions.

All rank 1 moves will be freely given to all the masses at the start. This includes 2 moves in every position and all of the transitional moves to get you to where you're going.

All rank 2 moves will require one stat to be at 6. The stat chosen will determine which moves are available to you. There are no moves that are 'advantage specific', so don't worry if you took a disadvantage in quickness. If you get it to 6, you can still learn all the quickness moves.

All rank 3 moves will require TWO stats to be at 12. The stats chosen will determine which moves are available to you.

All Rank 4 moves will require THREE stats to be at 18. The stats chosen will determine which moves are available to you.

All Rank 5 moves will require FOUR stats to be at 24. As you progress as a Wrestler, you need to break out of your one dimensional frame and expand your skills to succeed.

All Rank 6 moves will require FIVE stats to be at 30. Your battle prowess has shown you how your foes do battle, and you're going to have the choice to take some of their moves to augment your own.

All Rank 7 moves will require ALL SIX stats to be at 36. Truly, your renown is growing, and the belt is within your grasp. Can you hold take it?

All Rank 8 moves will requires ALL SIX stats to be at 42. If you aren't a champion yet, you will be. You have access to every move our game has to offer. Forge your own destiny. At this rank, the world of UWE is yours to command.
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Why have we chosen this way to learn moves?

Well, there are some games that don't give you the opportunity to see what you're going to get without some insane complex mathematical formula that requires a Ph.D. to understand. There are other games that expect you to dive into very specific archetypes to be successful. Here at UWE, we don't want that. We want you to be just as successful as you can be.

Why the strictness on the statistics though?

Well, that's very simple. I suspect quite a few of you have come to our game from another game, and expect things to be very similar. Well, they are and they aren't. We don't want to see people spending all their time working on a single stat to unlock a move that only that class can get. It cheapens the entire experience. With our advantage/disadvantage system, it would be very easy for someone to just train up in three stats to a very high degree and ignore the other half of the game. Those players will likely be very successful in the beginning. However, as all of the players begin creating and playing with more unique builds, these 'cookie cutter' designs will mean less and less.

Will there be new moves added to flesh out any weaker areas?

Yes! Malice is working diligently on adding moves, and myself and Vixen will be going over them to ensure their power vs. cost is in line with everything else we've got set up. If you've got any moves that you'd like to see, check to make sure we haven't already put them in. Then, if they have not, post them in the forum post position they'd be from. We want everyone to feel like this is THEIR game too.

What if I think your idea is stupid not good, and I have my own about this?

Then I welcome the opportunity to talk about game balancing with you in this post right here. After all, that's why it's here.